NYU Tax LLM OCI

 

Date: January 4th, 2010 4:08 PM Author: Stirring set Subject: What are the numbers for the 2009-10 OCI? I'm trying to figure out whether I should get an LLM in tax. T10, good grades, secondary journal, summered at V50 firm (no-offered). Does anyone know the actual numbers for OCI at NYU this year? Fall and Spring? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1181137&forum_id=2#13721109)    Date: January 4th, 2010 4:10 PM Author: contagious private investor Only do this if you plan on practicing specifically in Tax the rest of your career. Firms will hire you for one specific purpose. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1181137&forum_id=2#13721122)    Date: January 4th, 2010 5:10 PM Author: mildly autistic sapphire abode "Firms will hire you . . ." yfwgi (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1181137&forum_id=2#13721549)    Date: January 4th, 2010 4:11 PM Author: Amethyst Bipolar Box Office Kitty Dunno, but I know a guy at GULC getting a tax LLM (I know not exactly comparable) and it was a bloodbath. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1181137&forum_id=2#13721133)    Date: January 14th, 2010 12:44 AM Author: Sinister sneaky criminal multi-billionaire Subject: Reply to original poster I am going to jump in here. I don't want to give out too much information. However, I will tell you the following about myself: -Top 3% from a very good Tier 1 School (not T14, but not far from it, either) -numerous honors/awards -No-offered by a Midlaw firm in a regional city in the bloodbath summer of 2008 (~60% offer rate, I was in the 40% no-offered). I was given a scholarship to NYU Tax LLM. Not full ride, but a decent chunk of change. I am currently in my second semester. The following are my observations thus far: 1) I applied all over during Fall semester. Most of my classmates kept saying, "I am just going to wait until Spring." I jumped the gun, and got about a dozen rejection letters per week. This is due to the economy, mostly. 2) The TIP (Tax Interview Program == OCI for Tax LLMs) is at the end of February. Everyone at the school has been oddly silent about what firms will be interviewing at TIP. This leads me to believe it will be a bloodbath. 3) These classes are NOT easy. As stated, I graduated very highly in my law school class from a good school (top 2% class rank), and so far I have received nothing but B+'s from last semester (a few of my grades are still incoming, though). I NEVER received anything beneath an A- in my J.D. The exams here are largely "bottom line"-type exams, NOTHING like J.D. essay exams. If you don't get the exact right numerical answer, the profs don't care that you did 95% of the work correctly. You get a zero. I took corporate tax during my J.D., and I took it again here. I did better in J.D. version. The Corporate tax here had literally, and I am not exaggerating, 300% of the content that my J.D. corp. tax had. We had, in many cases, 200+ pages of reading per week, ALL of which was tested on. The guy who typed all in CAPS is either innately good at tax law, or is lying about the classes being easy. 4) Depression is really common here. I have suffered from it(for the first time in my life), and so have my acquantences here. I don't know how to describe it -- but basically when you combine: (1) Reading Revenue Regs All day EVERY day + (2) shunned by the J.D.'s + (3) Most Tax LL.M.'s are here temporarily and not interested in socializing + (4) poor employment prospects and everyone worrying about it every day, you end up in a sad situation. 5) Employment prospects are pitiful. Even the "fallback" Big-4 firms hired a grand total of ONE PERSON last semester. You read that correctly. ONE PERSON. Only one firm interviewed (PWC as I recall), and they hired ONE PERSON. Sadly, that is the only person I have heard of who got a private sector job last semester. As far as I know, the IRS dinged EVERYONE this year (including me and all my acquaintances). I know of exactly one tax court clerk (but there may be more I don't know). Bottom line is that for the people who aren't deferred, EVERYONE, and I mean EVERYONE, is unemployed and starting to panic. My guess is that TIP may net three or four jobs, max. I am in a unique situation because I have biglaw written all over my resume, but I only have Midlaw experience with a no-offer. I was told by Deloitte & Douche that my resume "indicated that I would only stick around until a large firm gave me an offer." So I am fucked out of biglaw, and fucked out of big4. I will find something. But at this point, I would truly be happy making 50k working for a sole practitioner estate planner or something. If there's one thing NYU has taught me (and I am serious here), it's that I really don't want to be around these consummate douche bags day-in and day-out. I plan to enjoy life once I finish this degree. If it means living a middle class life in a suburb of a "regional" legal market, then so be it. Bottom line, however, is that I still think (especially considering my scholarship) that I was better at NYU this year as compared to sitting on my ass unemployed. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1181137&forum_id=2#13803741)    Date: January 14th, 2010 1:44 AM Author: harsh theater stage What was your major? Delloite only wants accounting majors it seems... (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1181137&forum_id=2#13804396)    Date: January 14th, 2010 10:32 AM Author: Stirring set International Relations, I have zero accounting experience (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1181137&forum_id=2#13805553)    Date: April 2nd, 2011 5:29 PM Author: boyish sound barrier reading party should've gotten a MACC (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1181137&forum_id=2#17671554)    Date: January 14th, 2010 10:37 AM Author: Stirring set Awesome response, thank you for posting. I have no idea if I got a scholarship from NYU (although I assume if I didn't get one right away, I won't get one period). Law school is a fucking depressing place, and an LLM program seems even worse. I really don't want to go. But if I'm going to finish my JD unemployed, then... fuck. So I'm kind of paralyzed as to what to do. NYU costs 50K, etc etc, but I think I really complain about the cost because I don't want to go. I guess your post taught me that my premonition was correct, that an LLM will be an even more depressing experience than the JD. On the other hand, you seem pretty confident on finding a job in a regional market which will allow you to maintain a middle class living. Do you think you'll be able to get one of those in this economy? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1181137&forum_id=2#13805577)    Date: January 14th, 2010 1:32 PM Author: Massive whorehouse affirmative action "The exams here are largely "bottom line"-type exams, NOTHING like J.D. essay exams. If you don't get the exact right numerical answer, the profs don't care that you did 95% of the work correctly. You get a zero." I've taken a couple tax llm classes (as a JD) and have not found this to be the case. While tax (like any other statutory legal area) can certainly be bottom line with respect to applicability of rules, I haven't encountered professors who insist that students perform arithmetic flawlessly. I have to wonder whether it is your experience or mine that is anomalous. The rest of your post sounds right, though. Employment prospects are grim for full time LLM students. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1181137&forum_id=2#13806485)    Date: January 15th, 2010 8:05 AM Author: honey-headed slimy house I feel bad for you. NYU is clearly the only llm worth getting, but tax practice at law firms has collapsed and been on a serious decline for years (lots of old partners, few associates, no future for younger partners who are not paid well at all unless they can bring in business (hard to do that as a tax guy unless you are selling shelters)) Good luck. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1181137&forum_id=2#13813530)    Date: January 4th, 2010 4:13 PM Author: Stirring set Right it'll limit my options to either tax or tax related fields (like estate planning), which is fine because I enjoy estate planning work. However, I don't love estate planning so much that I'm willing to drop 50K on it at NYU and then turn out unemployed. However, getting details on employment at NYU is like pulling teeth! They simply won't tell me. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1181137&forum_id=2#13721142)    Date: January 4th, 2010 4:14 PM Author: fuchsia mewling stock car trump supporter gee, i wonder why they won't reveal employment stats... (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1181137&forum_id=2#13721152)    Date: January 4th, 2010 4:17 PM Author: Amethyst Bipolar Box Office Kitty Because they are great and they don't want to seem immodest? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1181137&forum_id=2#13721164)    Date: January 4th, 2010 4:18 PM Author: Stirring set Must be that there are so many jobs, and it's so obvious that everyone in NYU's Tax LLM program gets a job, that they don't even need to reveal the numbers. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1181137&forum_id=2#13721175)    Date: January 4th, 2010 4:30 PM Author: fuchsia mewling stock car trump supporter bingo! only do tax llm if it's part-time and your current employer is paying or helping you pay for it. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1181137&forum_id=2#13721260)    Date: January 4th, 2010 4:19 PM Author: jet nowag (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1181137&forum_id=2#13721176)    Date: January 4th, 2010 4:58 PM Author: Scarlet floppy jap Don't do it!!!!!!!1111 LLM programs have terrible employment stats. I wouldn't be surprised if the number of offers at NYU LLM was in the single digits. Gun for a federal clerkship instead. That way, you keep the door open for lateralling into BIGLAW, and you get fed exp so you're a better candidate for government work. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1181137&forum_id=2#13721462)    Date: January 4th, 2010 5:45 PM Author: Stirring set ITE getting a fed clerkship as a law student is damn near impossible. I go to a T10, in years past, half of all applicants would land a fed clerkship. This year (granted the year isn't over and some judges could make a late hire) we have less than 10%. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1181137&forum_id=2#13721726)    Date: January 4th, 2010 7:40 PM Author: Scarlet floppy jap Then get a state court clerkship. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1181137&forum_id=2#13722445)    Date: January 6th, 2010 11:45 PM Author: shimmering aromatic mental disorder I would highly recommend that you don't do this. I graduated last year FROM NYU TAX and I was in the same position as you. I had decent JD grade from top 10 school and got dinged from summer firm. It was the worst experience of my life and I regret it to this day. I am currently still unemployed. Here are the reasons: 1) You will ace your classes but just look at the people you compete against. From what I've noticed big chunk of full time NYU Tax LL.Ms are from 2nd and 3rd tier law schools and have never set a foot in biglaw (i.e. didn't even get a single callback). Some of them study really hard (I mean really hard) but are NOT lawyers. They are accountants with JDs from shitty schools that spew lawyerish and finance-wanna-be jargons just to sound smart. They WILL ABSOLUTELY DRIVE YOU NUTS. AND YOU WILL FEEL DEPRESSED WHILE PARTIALLY AND RELUCTANTLY ACCEPTING THEM AS YOUR PEERS. 2) Our year OCI was a joke and NYU Tax OCI will be a joke for following several years. They advertised Davis Polk, Simpson, and Skadden as prospective employers of the program. Wow! First of all, all three firms require top JD grade. So your top 10 JD will get you the interview. However, they also look at your ding. ITE, THEY ARE NOT INTERESTED IN YOU UNLESS YOUR DING IS FROM A FIRM LIKE MORGAN LEWIS THAT GAVE 100% NO OFFER. THEY WILL DRILL YOU ON THIS. 3) Having said that V10 firms are not interested in hiring you even though you have top grades from T10 JD, you should gun for Jones Day, Ropes and Gray, Baker McKenzie, and other relatively easier firms. However, EVEN THIS IS TOUGH. THIS IS BECAUSE THE FUCKING RECRUITERS THAT COME TO INTERVIEW ARE GRADUATES FROM 2ND OR 3RD TIER LAW THEMSELVES. THEY WILL PLAY DOWN YOUR TOP 10 JD AND MAKE YOU FEEL LIKE THE REST OF NYU TAX PROGRAM STUDENTS ARE YOUR ACTUAL PEERS. <--IF YOU REALLY DON'T WANT TO DO SHIT LAW AND WANT TO GAMBLE 60k, I WOULD SAY THAT THESE ARE THE FIRMS YOU HAVE THE BIGGEST CHANCE OF EMPLOYMENT WITH. 4) Finally, you have the rest of the crew: IRS, Big4, and boutiques. HAHAHA YOUR TOP 10 JD WILL BE YOUR DOWNFALL. A TYPICAL IRS AGENT IS A HOFSTRA GRAD WHO WON'T EVEN REVEAL TO YOU WHERE HE WENT TO SCHOOL. HE WILL HAVE A DIFFERENT HIRING CRITERIA: A) LITIGATION EXPERIENCE AT SHIT FIRMS AND B) YOUR FIT. AND OBVIOUSLY, BEING A TOP 10 JD STUDENT, YOU WILL NOT FIT IN WITH THE IRS OR ACCOUNTING CROWD. 5) The career services are not 100% honest and open about employment stats. THESE PEOPLE JUST WANT TO MILK YOU. SORRY FOR USING CAPS BUT MY LIFE IS RUINED BECAUSE OF NYU TAX LLM. I HAVE GRADUATED IN MAY AND HAVE NOT BEEN SUCCESSFUL IN FINDING ANYTHING. I AM NOW DRINKING BY SELF WHILE AVOIDING PHONE CALLS FROM DEBT COLLECTORS AND MY BIGLAW DOUCHE FRIENDS WHO WANTS TO LAUGH AT MY SORRY ASS. I AM ALSO VERY MAD AT NYU TAX PROGRAM. DO NOT GO INTO NYU TAX PROGRAM. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1181137&forum_id=2#13741157)    Date: January 6th, 2010 11:59 PM Author: territorial address wagecucks What is "acing" your classes? What was your end GPA? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1181137&forum_id=2#13741335)    Date: January 7th, 2010 12:05 AM Author: shimmering aromatic mental disorder let's just say near 4.0 (after self conversion**). I did slightly worse in 2nd semester because I got depressed. ** NYU does not calculate GPA. It merely gives you letter grades.** I AM NOT FUCKING LYING. THE CLASSES ARE EASY. 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